Experts On Trial

What should we do when experts disagree with each other? Author and criminal psychologist Dr Julia Shaw lays bare the secret world of expert witnesses. An expert on the reliability of memory, she has submitted evidence in more than 50 trials in the UK, US, and Canada. In this series she dives into five seminal legal cases where the outcome hinged on a crucial piece of expert evidence.

Episode

Title

First
Broadcast

Comments

Shaken Baby

20240401

In this episode she tells the story of baby Z's death and the ‘trial by experts' his mother faced. Had she really shaken him? It was the job of medical experts to answer the question. But they disagreed about the interpretation of symptoms known as ‘the deadly triad'.

Dr Julia Shaw speaks with barrister Karen Squibb-Williams to try and make sense of shaken baby syndrome, of the controversy surrounding one of the experts in the case, Dr Wayne Squier and how disagreements like this can be resolved.

A judge has to decide the cause of a baby's death but the experts in the case don't agree.

A judge must decide if baby Z's death was caused by his parents, but expert witnesses submitting evidence in the case don't agree with each other. Whose expertise should we accept?

Hair Disaster

20240402

In this episode she tells the story of George Perrot who was only a teenager when the police suspected him of aggravated rape, burglary and assault against two elderly women. The only piece of evidence tying him to the crime was a strand of hair. In court FBI expert Wayne Oakes said he was confident the hair matched Perrot's. But could he be sure?

Dr Julia Shaw speaks with forensic scientist Jo Millington about the reliability of hair analysis, how difficult it is to convey probabilities and statistics in legal settings, and what we can do to keep badly flawed expertise out of courtrooms.

One of the FBI's microscopic hair analysis experts gets it very wrong. And he's not alone.

One of the FBI's microscopic hair analysis experts gets it very wrong. And he's not alone. An FBI review tries to identify where it all went wrong.

False Confessions

20240403

In this episode she tells the story of the Guildford Four, four young people who confessed to the IRA bombing of a pub in Guildford in 1974. Professor Gisli Gudjonsson, a forensic psychologist, provided expert evidence in the appeal showing how the wrong interrogation tactics can lead to miscarriages of justice.

Dr Julia Shaw speaks with professor Lawrence Allison, an investigative and forensic psychologist. They speak about the correct way to interview terrorism suspects, false confessions, and the ways in which expert evidence can change criminal justice systems for the better.

The police use coercive tactics to extract confessions from the Guildford Four.

The police use coercive tactics to extract confessions from the Guildford Four. They're convicted, until years later when a psychological expert helps to free them.

Fire Flashover

20240404

In this episode she tells the story of David Gavitt who woke up one night to find the living room of his home aflame. He told the police he tried to save his family but couldn't, in only minutes his house was on fire. Fire investigators believe he did it. But how sound is the science they are relying on?

Dr Julia Shaw speaks with longtime fire investigator Emma Wilson about the revolution that took place in the field of fire investigation, the phenomenon known as ‘flashover', and what we should do when the science changes.

An expert thinks a crime scene indicates arson. But then the fire science changes.

An expert finds that the charred remains of a crime scene are evidence of arson. But the analysis does not survive the test of time when fire science changes.

05 LAST

Dna Transfer

20240405

AKA Smoking Gun

In this episode she tells the story of Lukis Anderson, whose DNA found its way on the fingernails of a murder victim he never crossed paths with. It turns out that a DNA match is not quite the smoking gun we think it is.

Dr Julia Shaw once again speaks with forensic scientist Jo Millington, this time about the limitations of DNA evidence, secondary transfer of DNA. She asks how bias in forensic science might come into play, even for DNA analysis.

The police find a stranger's DNA on a victim's fingernails. Can a DNA match be wrong?

The police find a stranger's DNA on a victim's fingernails. The forensic report came back with a match from the police database but can a DNA match be wrong?

Can psychological bias contaminate forensic science? Author and criminal psychologist Dr Julia Shaw lays bare the secret world of expert witnesses. An expert on the reliability of memory, she has submitted evidence in more than 50 trials in the UK, US, and Canada. In this series, she dives into five seminal legal cases where the outcome hinged on a crucial piece of expert evidence.

In this episode, Julia tells the story of Lukis Anderson, whose DNA found its way on the fingernails of a murder victim he never crossed paths with. It turns out that a DNA match is not quite the smoking gun we think it is.

Dr Julia Shaw once again speaks with forensic scientist Jo Millington, this time about the limitations of DNA evidence and secondary transfer of DNA. She asks how bias in forensic science might come into play, even for DNA analysis.

Presenter: Dr Julia Shaw

Produceer: Simona Rata

A TellTale Industries production for BBC Radio 4

The police find a stranger's DNA on a victim's fingernails. The forensic report came back with a match from the police database - but can a DNA match be wrong?

Episodes

Episode	Title	First Broadcast	Comments
01	Shaken Baby	20240401	In this episode she tells the story of baby Z's death and the ‘trial by experts' his mother faced. Had she really shaken him? It was the job of medical experts to answer the question. But they disagreed about the interpretation of symptoms known as ‘the deadly triad'. Dr Julia Shaw speaks with barrister Karen Squibb-Williams to try and make sense of shaken baby syndrome, of the controversy surrounding one of the experts in the case, Dr Wayne Squier and how disagreements like this can be resolved. A judge has to decide the cause of a baby's death but the experts in the case don't agree. A judge must decide if baby Z's death was caused by his parents, but expert witnesses submitting evidence in the case don't agree with each other. Whose expertise should we accept?
02	Hair Disaster	20240402	In this episode she tells the story of George Perrot who was only a teenager when the police suspected him of aggravated rape, burglary and assault against two elderly women. The only piece of evidence tying him to the crime was a strand of hair. In court FBI expert Wayne Oakes said he was confident the hair matched Perrot's. But could he be sure? Dr Julia Shaw speaks with forensic scientist Jo Millington about the reliability of hair analysis, how difficult it is to convey probabilities and statistics in legal settings, and what we can do to keep badly flawed expertise out of courtrooms. One of the FBI's microscopic hair analysis experts gets it very wrong. And he's not alone. One of the FBI's microscopic hair analysis experts gets it very wrong. And he's not alone. An FBI review tries to identify where it all went wrong.
03	False Confessions	20240403	In this episode she tells the story of the Guildford Four, four young people who confessed to the IRA bombing of a pub in Guildford in 1974. Professor Gisli Gudjonsson, a forensic psychologist, provided expert evidence in the appeal showing how the wrong interrogation tactics can lead to miscarriages of justice. Dr Julia Shaw speaks with professor Lawrence Allison, an investigative and forensic psychologist. They speak about the correct way to interview terrorism suspects, false confessions, and the ways in which expert evidence can change criminal justice systems for the better. The police use coercive tactics to extract confessions from the Guildford Four. The police use coercive tactics to extract confessions from the Guildford Four. They're convicted, until years later when a psychological expert helps to free them.
04	Fire Flashover	20240404	In this episode she tells the story of David Gavitt who woke up one night to find the living room of his home aflame. He told the police he tried to save his family but couldn't, in only minutes his house was on fire. Fire investigators believe he did it. But how sound is the science they are relying on? Dr Julia Shaw speaks with longtime fire investigator Emma Wilson about the revolution that took place in the field of fire investigation, the phenomenon known as ‘flashover', and what we should do when the science changes. An expert thinks a crime scene indicates arson. But then the fire science changes. An expert finds that the charred remains of a crime scene are evidence of arson. But the analysis does not survive the test of time when fire science changes.
05 LAST	Dna Transfer	20240405	AKA Smoking Gun In this episode she tells the story of Lukis Anderson, whose DNA found its way on the fingernails of a murder victim he never crossed paths with. It turns out that a DNA match is not quite the smoking gun we think it is. Dr Julia Shaw once again speaks with forensic scientist Jo Millington, this time about the limitations of DNA evidence, secondary transfer of DNA. She asks how bias in forensic science might come into play, even for DNA analysis. The police find a stranger's DNA on a victim's fingernails. Can a DNA match be wrong? The police find a stranger's DNA on a victim's fingernails. The forensic report came back with a match from the police database but can a DNA match be wrong? Can psychological bias contaminate forensic science? Author and criminal psychologist Dr Julia Shaw lays bare the secret world of expert witnesses. An expert on the reliability of memory, she has submitted evidence in more than 50 trials in the UK, US, and Canada. In this series, she dives into five seminal legal cases where the outcome hinged on a crucial piece of expert evidence. In this episode, Julia tells the story of Lukis Anderson, whose DNA found its way on the fingernails of a murder victim he never crossed paths with. It turns out that a DNA match is not quite the smoking gun we think it is. Dr Julia Shaw once again speaks with forensic scientist Jo Millington, this time about the limitations of DNA evidence and secondary transfer of DNA. She asks how bias in forensic science might come into play, even for DNA analysis. Presenter: Dr Julia Shaw Produceer: Simona Rata A TellTale Industries production for BBC Radio 4 The police find a stranger's DNA on a victim's fingernails. The forensic report came back with a match from the police database - but can a DNA match be wrong?